Peak Oil

TAE: a report which will blow up the Eurozone


The crumbling global economy

VIP
VIP

Posts: 9377

Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:24 am

Location: Berkeley, Ca.

Post Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:16 pm

TAE: a report which will blow up the Eurozone

http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2012/01/report-that-will-blow-up-eurozone.html
Ilargi, 1/28/12.

No, I’m not talking about the fact that Germany and Holland want to take over as the de facto government in Greece, as Noah Barkin writes for Reuters (that they want to do it through Brussels is a mere technicality).
Germany wants Greece to give up budget control[link, quote].......
Ilargi: Nor do I mean the report from the Kiel Institute for the World Economy that Ambrose Evans-Pritchard cites for the Telegraph, and which implies a second bailout for Portugal is looming near:
Investors fear mounting losses in Portugal as second rescue looms [link, quote].......
Ilargi: Or even the true meaning behind the steep drop in the Baltic Dry Index, on which Sebastian Walsh reports for Financial News:
Chart of the Day: The Baltic Dry Index [link, quote].......
Ilargi: The report I refer to in the title requires a little background info:
In Holland, where I'll be for a few more days, there's a "rogue" right-wing party named PVV (Party for Freedom). It has no cabinet ministers, but the minority moderate right-wing government needs its support to stay in the saddle. The PVV, like other European right-wingers, is, among many other things, against much of what the European Union stands for. It's certainly against the Euro, and the bailouts with Dutch taxpayer money of countries like Greece and Portugal.
A few months ago, the PVV announced they had commissioned a report from British financial consultancy firm Lombard Street Research on the economic consequences of staying in the Eurozone versus returning to the guilder.
That report is about to be published "within days". It will prove to be highly explosive material
. And the PVV will do all it possibly can to make sure it receives a lot of media attention. It may tear down the incumbent government, which is a heavy advocate of all things Europe, and which will have to quit once the PVV support dies, but for that party that's not the no. 1 concern.
And if and when Holland has a large scale discussion on the report and the issues it raises, Germany won't be able to ignore it and stay behind. And then, neither will France.
Max Julius of Citywire.uk did a piece on the report, without mentioning it directly, 10 days ago:
Why Germans and Dutch will exit 'suicide pact' eurozone [link]
Germany and the Netherlands are likely to quit the eurozone rather than swallow an indefinite number of 'unrequited transfers' to the union’s crisis-stricken nations, according to Charles Dumas, chief economist at Lombard Street Research......
Dumas [noted that] the 'Club Med' nations needed about 5% of gross domestic product in annual debt refinancing 'more or less indefinitely'.
This would amount to €150 billion a year, of which Germany would have to stump up just over €60 billion, France a little under €50 billion and €15 billion from the Netherlands, he said. And this would be on top of the shortfall in consumer spending, in addition to the fact that wages and consumption may have to be held down in the future, Dumas warned.

Ilargi: This morning, Dutch daily Algemeen Dagblad cited Dumas as saying these numbers are "cautious estimates". They are valid only if Greece and Portugal would leave the Eurozone in 2012 - which Dumas expects will happen -. If they don't, the payments will be even higher.
He predicts the costs of a return to the guilder will be much less than for instance the Dutch government's Central Planning Bureau claims, which warns of huge losses if Holland were to leave the Euro.
Dumas: "It's just like in a religion: first they promise you heaven, and if that doesn't work out, they threaten you with hell."
The economist dismissed the notion that the region would be able to turn itself around so as to make such support from its 'core' unnecessary. Citing the example of the persisting transfers from west to east Germany, he pointed out: 'The ones that need the money to flow in carry on needing the money to flow in, or just stay poor.'
Dumas also warned that austerity was only worsening Greece’s budget deficit, and that it was 'difficult to imagine' the deeply indebted state receiving the four quarterly batches of financing it is due this year......
Calling the one-off damage of splitting up the eurozone 'seriously exaggerated', Dumas warned that as the crisis deepens, he believes 'Germany and the Netherlands will actually realise that they had better call it a day and jump out.'

Ilargi: Sure, the Dutch government, and certainly the EU and the banking system, have formidable PR machineries at their disposal. We’ll see a lot of numbers being floated that contradict Lombard's report. And we'll have to wait a few days to see exactly what numbers Dumas et al. come up with.
But the people of Germany and Holland are already very nervous about the fact that they face austerity and budget cuts while billions of euros are transferred to southern Europe. Up until now, the fear of economic disaster predicted in unison by government leaders have kept them quiet. Now that a reputable economic research firm flatly contradicts these predictions, and states that, instead, it's staying within the Eurozone that will be the far more costly option, the people will grow increasingly restless.......
Governments in Berlin and The Hague will have a lot of explaining to do. They have to do so against a backdrop of (near-)failing Greek debt swap talks, which will at the very least force them to admit that they have a lost tens of billions in taxpayer money to Club Med countries already.
With a second Portugal bailout waiting in the wings. And lots of negative news on Italy and Spain. And more domestic budget cuts.

They’ll realize that their governments have painted far too rosy pictures about the issues so far. And they’ll expect them to deliver more of the same. This is what we call a receding trust horizon.
It's not the report alone, it's the entire combination of factors. The report will "merely" serve as the catalyst that blows up the powder keg. It may take a few months, but it will happen. The publicity hungry rogue PVV party that commissioned it, followed by anti-Eurozone voices elsewhere, will make sure of that.[Of course, only time will tell]
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun

Mutant Zombie Biker
Mutant Zombie Biker

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:14 pm

Post Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:10 am

Re: TAE: a report which will blow up the Eurozone

This is just guesswork:
"That report is about to be published "within days". It will prove to be highly explosive material. "

Politicians like problems, to a degree. They can utilize them to shape society (help their buddies), ref. the criminal Rahm Emanuel: "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste ..."

I think Merkel has had her share of problems, have a look at these photos:
Pictures from last year, she’s not very happy, even a bomb found in her office: http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/01/09/nyhe ... /19730782/

”Happy” Merkozy: http://www.hegnar.no/okonomi/utenriks/article677167.ece

2012: Tired of being Europe’s bitch, personally worn out: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ja ... l-meltdown

Video just for laughs: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks ... yTjb3og-Dc

I've said it before: Germany should leave the Euro, that would be best - even for the Club Med. Holland would follow, perhaps other countries as well. France makes a lot of great cars, even Italy has substantial industrial production. But when did you last time buy something made in Portugal - except wine? Portugal has had a boom these last years which does not reflect their economic growth, it reflects easy money.

Without Germany, the rest would be able to print them selves out of the crushing debt. Club Med would reverse to the mean, or rather, overshoot downwards. Oil would get very expensive for them, but they would get a head start on living off the land. Donkeys would appear in greater numbers in Portugal - they never went totally out of fashion.

German Marks would skyrocket at first, crushing some of their industrial exports, more outsourcing to the Far East, then they would have a few years in which they could prepare to meet their double demographic bombs.

(Also guesswork, of course.)
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on ... or by imbeciles who really mean it. – Mark Twain

http://www.energyconservationinfo.org/compendium.htm#9.4%20%20Formulas

VIP
VIP

Posts: 9377

Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:24 am

Location: Berkeley, Ca.

Post Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:45 am

Re: TAE: a report which will blow up the Eurozone

You can print yourself out of debt? REALLY? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun

Mutant Zombie Biker
Mutant Zombie Biker

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:14 pm

Post Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:55 pm

Re: TAE: a report which will blow up the Eurozone

Yes, you can print yourself out of crushing debt. It's fun, we've done it before. Fun for all speculators and investors who is short the currency.
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on ... or by imbeciles who really mean it. – Mark Twain

http://www.energyconservationinfo.org/compendium.htm#9.4%20%20Formulas

VIP
VIP

Posts: 9377

Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:24 am

Location: Berkeley, Ca.

Post Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:53 pm

Re: TAE: a report which will blow up the Eurozone

When have you done it before? Are you talking about the early '90s? Totally irrelevant, the world economy had not come to a triple crisis at that point.
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun
User avatar

Sovereign of Doom
Sovereign of Doom

Posts: 577

Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:33 am

Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:44 pm

Re: TAE: a report which will blow up the Eurozone

And you get fewer cents for every dollar each time.

Mutant Zombie Biker
Mutant Zombie Biker

Posts: 150

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:14 pm

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:51 am

Re: TAE: a report which will blow up the Eurozone

I believe the report never ever hit the headlines. Come on PM, a report will never blow up a continents financial system. It just doesn't work that way. Man is a resilient critter. (http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article14393961.ab)

This thread should have been posted in tin, as it is biased conjectures and rumour.

We had a strong inflationary bout in the seventies. House prices doubled in a few years, rates well north of 15 % and wage inflation. My father built a house in 72, it tripled in nominal value in a few years, making his debt tiny, both wrt to equity and wages.

Energy crises started it - the Arab oil embargo in reaction to another of Israels wars. Of course this time is different, with a unique set of circumstances, as are all points in history. But I agree with you that the prospects this time - for a variety of reasons - is much more difficult. For instance, they have not been able to get the wage inflation going, it is difficult (almost impossible) in a globalised world. Besides, they have pumped money into the top, bailing out the banks, in reality creating a monetary system not reflecting the economic situation of the people and the production system.
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on ... or by imbeciles who really mean it. – Mark Twain

http://www.energyconservationinfo.org/compendium.htm#9.4%20%20Formulas

VIP
VIP

Posts: 9377

Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:24 am

Location: Berkeley, Ca.

Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:15 am

Re: TAE: a report which will blow up the Eurozone

Energy crisis did NOT start it. The post-war reconstruction, the key prop of global capitalism after WWII, was pretty much done by the 1960s, and by 1970, the structural crisis inherent in capitalism began re-emerging. Stagflation was already a problem before the 1973 oil shock.
Nothing "tin" about it, the "tin" is the notion that capitalism can handle everything because "we are resilient." Right, just like Wile Coyote :lol: :lol:
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun

Return to Financial Breaking News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.

phpBB SEO