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Population - The Elephant in the Room


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Post Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:20 pm

Population - The Elephant in the Room

Hat tip Al Czervik for reminding me of this salient and sane discussion that drives to the heart of the problem that William Catton discussed in his book Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change in 1986.

This is a must read book, but if you want the cliff notes Paul Chefurka puts it all together in a page or two.

At the root of all the converging crises in today's world is the issue of human overpopulation. Each of the global problems we face today is the result of too many people using too much of our planet's finite, non-renewable resources and filling its waste repositories of land, water and air to overflowing. The true danger posed by our exploding population is not our absolute numbers but the inability of our environment to cope with so many of us doing what we do.

It is becoming clearer every day, as crises like global warming, water, soil and food depletion, biodiversity loss and the degradation of our oceans constantly worsen, that the human situation is not sustainable. Bringing about a sustainable balance between ourselves and the planet we depend on will require us, in very short order, to reduce our population, our level of activity, or both. One of the questions that comes up repeatedly in discussions of population is, "What level of human population is sustainable?" In this article I will give my analysis of that question, and offer a look at the human road map from our current situation to that level.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, the concepts of ecological science are the most effective tools for understanding this situation. The crucial concepts are sustainability, carrying capacity and overshoot. Considered together these can give us some clue as to what the true sustainable population of the earth might be, as well as the trajectory between our current numbers and the point of sustainability.

http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Population.html

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The human cost of such an involuntary population rebalancing is, of course, horrific. Based on this model we would experience an average excess death rate of 100 million per year every year for the next 75 years to achieve our target population of one billion by 2082. The peak excess death rate would happen in about 20 years, and would be about 200 million that year. To put this in perspective, WWII caused an excess death rate of only 10 million per year for only six years.

Given this, it's not hard to see why population control is the untouchable elephant in the room - the problem we're in is simply too big for humane or even rational solutions. It's also not hard to see why some people are beginning to grasp the inevitability of a human die-off.
I said to my soul, be still, and wait without hope
For hope would be hope for the wrong thing; wait without love,
For love would be love of the wrong thing; there is yet faith
But the faith and the love and the hope are all in the waiting.

TS Eliot
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Sovereign of Doom
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Post Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:11 am

Re: Population - The Elephant in the Room

There's also consumption per capita. For example, the U.S. has less than 5 pct of the world's population but consumes around 25 pct of world oil production. Only around 20 pct of the world's population is responsible for 60 pct of personal consumption. In general, only around 25 pct of the world's population likely controls over 75 pct of various global resources.

Even if population drops because of prosperity, it's likely that increased consumption due to prosperity may offset savings in resources. For example, a middle class population of only around a billion people may actually experience overshoot.
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Post Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:45 am

Re: Population - The Elephant in the Room

Yah, but how is that middle class going to get down that slippery slope without falling off the cliff and surviving? I just don't see how they can rappel without the right gear, training, and ropes. The major string-pullers, sure, but the middle class? Not so sure. They are too busy looking at their belly buttons, or texting while they are driving their prius or hummer.
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Post Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:30 am

Re: Population - The Elephant in the Room

allissun wrote:Yah, but how is that middle class going to get down that slippery slope without falling off the cliff and surviving? I just don't see how they can rappel without the right gear, training, and ropes. The major string-pullers, sure, but the middle class? Not so sure. They are too busy looking at their belly buttons, or texting while they are driving their prius or hummer.


The kill off will favor the lucky and the intellectually nimble.

You may very well find yourself on the road to olduvai with sarah palin or nelly.

I may very well get shot in the head by a guy like lionstone and not have the chance to protect my kids from the latin kings.

100 million a year...that is two japans a year (actually slightly more)...

How much can you continue to donate to the red cross as the kill off picks up speed?

We need to find 1 ghawar every 4 years to get to 120MBD -

ain't gonna happen.

the earth is falling out from under the human project today.
I said to my soul, be still, and wait without hope
For hope would be hope for the wrong thing; wait without love,
For love would be love of the wrong thing; there is yet faith
But the faith and the love and the hope are all in the waiting.

TS Eliot

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Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:05 am

Re: Population - The Elephant in the Room

Another important factor is going to be whether or not you have the skills to survive and are a valued contributor to your community.

(I know skills are not a guarantee, but they actually should be. Otherwise we're headed for the very same situation that got us here. Another "top-heavy" culture that survives based on slave-labour.)

The problem becomes one of "who decides" and "what are the criteria"? Not sure I'd want that job considering how fucking many lunatics are running around. And I certainly don't want the person who would apply for the job doing it either!

So where does all of this information really leave us?
"That intimate day in and day out kind of seeing and feeling of the disturbing changes occurring to something they love. Because they love it they notice everything." - Cleanslate
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Post Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:51 am

Re: Population - The Elephant in the Room

Check this out. It's from John Howe and it projects how the food gap grows when women have more children.

It's interesting that the gap can't be filled unless most women don't have children at all.

That means that the free fall starts now. The figure of a hundred million a year is pretty accurate.

There will be children being born, but there will be a die-off rate that takes out many more than are born.

I don't think being middle class will confer any immunity from this.

We are going to start to see the die off very soon.

http://www.solarcarandtractor.com/scat_ ... _2011.html
I talk about peak oil on CNN in 2007:
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Post Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:33 am

Re: Population - The Elephant in the Room

Revi wrote:We are going to start to see the die off very soon.


Here's one reason: bacteria resistant to pretty much any antibiotic.

NDM 1, or New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase 1, makes bacteria resistant to almost all antibiotics, including the most powerful class, called carbapenems.

It first emerged in India three years ago and has now spread across the world. It has been found in a wide variety of bugs, including familiar pathogens like Escherichia coli, or E. coli.

No new drugs are on the horizon for at least 5-6 years to tackle it...

...The spread of superbugs threatens whole swathes of modern medicine, which cannot be practiced if doctors have no effective antibiotics to ward off infections during surgery, intensive care or cancer treatments like chemotherapy.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/07/uk-bacteria-superbugs-india-idUSLNE73600F20110407
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Post Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:33 am

Re: Population - The Elephant in the Room

We've overshot the carrying capacity. It's simple really and just a matter of time. Despite the obviousness of it all and the simplicity of the maths behind it there's something about staring the extinction of your own species in the face that seems to make the brains of the wider population ignore the problem. I guess it's inbuilt survival instinct or some such.

Just like the St Matthew Island reindeer, it'll end in tears (or maybe soylent green).

http://dieoff.org/page80.htm

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What will we do with all the dead folk? burning is the obvious choice otherwise we'll end up polluting groundwater with all manner of unpleasantness. But burning a couple of million dead people a year is going to be a full time job for those left alive, it's a job for the future I guess, burning the dead to keep warm during the winter. It's a bleak thought, but certainly possible.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, BAU continues unabated and we continue to exploit the planet for it's bounty to turn into colourful shiny things. There are all manner or reasons why the the die off could (and will) begin in earnest, and there's such a delicious irony to life that everything will likely happen at once in a perfect storm. I'm half expecting to see the four horsemen pulling a giant plastic pumpkin full of black swans...
Civilization rests on a set of promises; if the promises are broken too often, the civilization dies, no matter how rich it may be, or how mechanically clever. Hope and faith depend on the promises; if hope and faith go, everything goes ~ Herbert Agar

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Post Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:00 am

Re: Population - The Elephant in the Room

roccman wrote:
allissun wrote:Yah, but how is that middle class going to get down that slippery slope without falling off the cliff and surviving? I just don't see how they can rappel without the right gear, training, and ropes. The major string-pullers, sure, but the middle class? Not so sure. They are too busy looking at their belly buttons, or texting while they are driving their prius or hummer.


The kill off will favor the lucky and the intellectually nimble.

You may very well find yourself on the road to olduvai with sarah palin or nelly.

I may very well get shot in the head by a guy like lionstone and not have the chance to protect my kids from the latin kings.

100 million a year...that is two japans a year (actually slightly more)...

How much can you continue to donate to the red cross as the kill off picks up speed?

We need to find 1 ghawar every 4 years to get to 120MBD -

ain't gonna happen.

the earth is falling out from under the human project today.


Indians are by and large vegetarians, have few cars, and have a small earth impacting footprint. Of course, we are continually being told by the West that developed peoples eat meat, drive cars on extensive roading networks, shop till they drop, take annual holidays in far off places and feed their army of pets, meat produced from lands with an energy intensiveness that is quite spectacular...and all of this irrespective of whether they are a secular nuclear family or a born again household of biblical proportions.

Something is wrong with this picture.
Modern bourgeois society......... a society that has conjured up such gigantic means of production and of exchange, is like the sorcerer who is no longer able to control the powers of the nether world whom he has called up by his spells.
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Post Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:03 am

Re: Population - The Elephant in the Room

Indians are by and large vegetarians, have few cars, and have a small earth impacting footprint.


- Indians have a huge footprint by way of their overpopulation.
- There is extreme poverty in India that finds few equals in the world.
- demand for developed goods and services (includes cars) are soaring in India.

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The few cars they have pollute and clog city streets. The problem is getting worse.

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This could hardly be argued as being desirable.

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India has a huge ecological foot print.

Megadoom
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If you're still on the sidelines of whether doom is on the way, than all I can say is "let the zombies eat your stupid ass."

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