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Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over


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Post Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:09 pm

Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2012-02-09/obamas-energy-stool
Rolf E. Westgard. I have some problems with his analysis, as noted at the end.

The Obama administration's renewable energy stool, with its three legs of biofuels, solar, and wind, has now tipped over, as all three legs start to crumble. The final push came from the recent closing of Range Fuel Corp.'s cellulosic ethanol plant in Soperton, Ga.
Former Energy Sec. Samuel Bodman dedicated the Soperton plant in November 2007, saying, "Today marks the beginning of a new phase of our effort to make America more energy-secure." After 4 years and more than $300 million in taxpayer and private investment, the plant was unable to produce quantities of ethanol from wood chips and other cellulosic material because there is no effective cellulose-to-ethanol, large-scale production process.
Undeterred by this failure, the Obama administration has announced another $500 million for manufacturing plants to produce ethanol jet fuel from algae for military aircraft. There is no effective process for large-scale algae-to-ethanol production.
There is also little light for subsidized programs in solar energy, as illustrated by the $500 million taxpayer loss on Solyndra Corp., the result of going to market with a noncompetitive technology and process.
In the Nevada desert near the town of Ivanpah, ground was broken recently on a 4,000 acre Concentrated Solar Power (CSP) project using a $1.6 billion taxpayer guaranteed loan. More than 300,000 rotating mirrors will focus sunlight on three towers to heat liquid which becomes a source of steam for power generation. Ivanpah's developer is estimating annual electricity production of about 1 million Mw-hr. By comparison, Minnesota's Prairie Island nuclear plant produces eight times that amount, rain or shine, clouds or fair, night or day. After deducting Ivanpah's operating costs, such as regular cleaning of all those mirrors from desert dust, the net revenue is unlikely to cover even interest costs on this $2 billion-plus project.
Far to the east, an ill wind is blowing over the waters off Cape Cod. Interior Sec. Ken Salazar has approved Cape Wind, a $2 billion, 454 Mw project which will place 130 Siemens wind turbines in the sea. In testimony before the Massachusetts Energy Facilities Siting Board, Cape Wind's developer conceded that Cape Wind would actually operate at less than 100 Mw for 43% of the time, with lowest output in summer, when demand is highest.
There would be no output for approximately 10% of the time. Former state Congressman William Delahunt (D-Quincy) [not at all a right winger or a fossil fuels supporter] blasted the project and provided his own estimates: "This will be the most expensive and most heavily subsidized offshore wind farm in the country at over $2.5 billion, with power costs to the region that will be at least double," he said.
Texas has 10,135 Mw of installed wind-generation capacity, three times that of any other state. But during the sweltering days in recent summers, when electricity demand set records, the state's intermittent turbines were incapable of producing serious power. During the July 27-Aug. 3, 2011, heat wave, when Texas electricity demand peaked above 60,000 Mw, wind energy output was often less than 1,000 Mw, a 10% capacity factor.
The Obama administration is being accused of "picking specific winners" in energy technology instead of leaving the decision to the marketplace. That's not the real problem. The real problem is spending billions to prematurely push unworkable and uneconomic programs into production. At their current stage, biofuels and intermittent wind and solar lack the scale to provide a significant percent of our energy needs.
{But then, he states his preferences: research to "enhance the efficiency of solar panels" and the construction of new natural gas power plants, fueled i suppose by the supplies made available via shale gas fracking. He misses the key point: our energy use as a society is way too high, and keeps on increasing in order to make possible the ever continued economic growth which capitalism requires]
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun

Overlord
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Post Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:04 pm

Re: Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

Somehow they just seem stuck on trying for "bling," instead of just widely applying simple stuff that already works.

What's up with that?

Sugar to Ethanol -- Works.
Local Solar Thermal -- Works.
Local Small Wind -- Works.

Been around for decades or even centuries.

Instead we always have to have the next corporate moron-o-thon.
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." attributed to Henry Ford.

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Post Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:43 pm

Re: Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

Sugar to ethanol works? Too bad about the barely over 1 (if that) EROEI. Oops, forgot, you don't believe in EROEI. :lol: :lol:
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun

Overlord
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Post Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:41 pm

Re: Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

Well, if you would like to actually learn anything about the topic, the basic information is easily available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

Of course, it may conflict with what you -- as you say -- believe.

Ever notice the strongest belief systems are among those who claim not to have them?
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." attributed to Henry Ford.

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Post Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:25 am

Re: Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

i've learned from people who have actually investigated it thoroughly, namely Pimentel and Patzek. Brazil is an exception made possible by favorable climate, virtual slave labor and clearcut land. And even with that it's not really all that impressive once one looks closely. But ethanol projects do draw grant money. Nice try, shilldo. :D
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun

Overlord
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Post Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:20 am

Re: Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

ahhh, that explains it. You stopped learning some time ago.

And then that concrete set up pretty hard, huh?

Let me bring you up to this century and this decade . . .

Is this a fair sample of Pimentel's "work?"

Because of serious economic problems in Brazil, the government has abandoned subsidizing ethanol (Spirits Low, 1999; Coelho and others, 2002), and without the subsidy, ethanol production is no longer economically feasible for the producers.


Does that sound correct to you? ;)

Love you, man. Real question? How old are you, PM?

:mrgreen:
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." attributed to Henry Ford.

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Post Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

Older than you. And when did he write this?

I wouldn't try tangling with Patzek, shilldo, he's in Texas, i don't think the state is big enough for both of you.

Memo to me: do not feed the shill, do not....
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun

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Post Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:12 am

Re: Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

From 2/11/09 (exactly three years ago today), the Cornell paper, Pimentel is a professor there)
http://cornellsun.com/node/34938

Thirty years ago, when he was chairman of the Gasohol Panel of the Department of Energy, Pimentel published a study showing that ethanol was economically and environmentally unfeasible. This provoked two congressmen from the Corn Belt, and Pimentel was charged with dishonest interpretation of his research. Accordingly, 26 scientists from the Department of Energy and the Government Accountability Office (GAO) were summoned to verify Pimentel’s results and any possible conflict of interest, respectively. Two years later the GAO issued a report confirming the accuracy of his study.
Subsequently, Pimentel served in other national advisory boards in the life sciences, agriculture and energy. He published over 590 scientific papers and 23 books, many of which highlight his disdain for biofuel.
“All ethanol, I think, is a boondoggle,” Pimentel said, citing that biofuels account for only 1.3 percent of the total oil consumption in the United States, such that if the U.S. directed all of its corn production towards ethanol, it would only satisfy four percent of the nation’s total energy demand.
“Is 1.3 percent of our oil consumption making us oil independent? No way!” He said.
Still, it takes five times more cellulosic material or straw to produce ethanol from switchgrass, a plant whose main advantage, according to Pimentel, is the luxury of not planting seeds yearly. Yet, “there’s not a single [energy] plant in the world making ethanol from switch grass.”
Similarly, sugarcane is yet to be a viable alternative source of energy, he claimed. In Brazil, Pimentel said, oil consumption increased 42 percent in the last 10 years, despite the boom of sugarcane ethanol and the government subsidies that go along with it. Additionally, 100 percent of switchgrass will be needed to produce an equivalent amount of corn ethanol. In fact, for every pound of corn, five pounds of cellulose are needed to produce the same amount of ethanol by volume, he said.
Not only is corn an unreliable energy source, its use as biofuel has also led to scarcity of corn as food, and has raised the price of milk, meat and egg by about 50 percent. Bread prices, on the other hand, increased more than 100 percent since corn became adopted as a fuel source.
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun

Overlord
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Post Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:20 pm

Re: Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

Very good. Let's dig in a big?

Picasso Moon wrote:From 2/11/09 (exactly three years ago today), the Cornell paper, Pimentel is a professor there)
http://cornellsun.com/node/34938

Thirty years ago, when he was chairman of the Gasohol Panel of the Department of Energy, Pimentel published a study showing that ethanol was economically and environmentally unfeasible. . . . .


Old stuff is nothing new. Got it.

See this is why I am asking about the age stuff at this point.

Did you know that bell bottoms had went out of fashion, came back in, and are out again in this time span?

Similarly, sugarcane is yet to be a viable alternative source of energy, he claimed. [b]In Brazil, Pimentel said, oil consumption increased 42 percent in the last 10 years, despite the boom of sugarcane ethanol and the government subsidies that go along with it.



Ok. Let's add this up. It is a boom, Brazil is a net exporter, and yet is not viable?

We should all be such failures.

http://205.254.135.7/countries/cab.cfm?fips=BR

Pimentel is a total retard.


. . . . Not only is corn . . . .


Not only is corn not sugar cane, it is not even what we are talking about.

Meanwhile Patzek . . .

http://www.oilcrisis.com/patzek/

http://gaia.pge.utexas.edu/

A drill, baby, drill guy? -- Really PM, Really?

Anyway, as far as Brazil and sugar cane.

He says:

The only option that gives a marginal benefit is the conversion of the sugarcane ethanol . . .


Marginal benefit? (With claimed EIEIO of over 8) from sugarcane to ethanol . . . . whoda thunk . . . .

. . . . to hydrogen used in 60%-efficient fuel cells to produce electricity (Deluga et al., 2004), but such cells do not exist, see Appendix A.


So he would take a liquid fuel and convert it to . . . electricity?

Electricity which is already cheap, abundant and in surplus?

Have you ever heard anything so stupid?

I guess you do all the time, if you think this makes any sense.

Sorry PM, your heroes are idiots.
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." attributed to Henry Ford.

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Post Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:11 pm

Re: Obama's renewable energy stool has tipped over

The part about what happened 30 years ago was meant to provide some background, but then history is irrelevant for some people. As for the rest of your post, nothing more than deceptive distortions. Brazil's sugarcane ethanol industry thrives only thanks to slave labor and clearcutting jungle land.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5012
But then, of course, things like that have hardly mattered to you in the past, so why should they now.

Note to self: do not feed shilldo.
Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing
the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

SHIT SUCKS! MOVE ON! - Allissun
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